Curse

MithranArkanere · Feb 26, 2009, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Stances have only 4 removal skills, but quite a lot of downsides like short duration, energy consumption, reduced armor, reduced speed movement, not working if not under the effects of other skills...

And of course, you can have only one of them at the same time.

Stances do not prevent spells from hitting, and there are many spells that deal knockdown, some of them even without conditions at all.

So this would be way too much.

Wubbies · Feb 26, 2009, 03:44 PM // 15:44

For every build there is a counter build going against a "stance monk" why not use some of the following skills:
[diversion][blackout][Migraine]->kill woh [Wastrel's Worry] [wild blow] [Conjure Nightmare] [Conjure Phantasm] -> stances dont stop health degen [Phantom Pain]->no need fro a sword or axe to make a deep wound u know [Shrinking Armor]->crack that monk [Signet of Humility] -> no WOH =No Heal..plenty of time to drain health etc.. [Web of Disruption] -> probally hard to time but worth a shot [Whirling Axe] [Wild Strike] [Wild Throw] and if that isnt enuff here a link for more http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nega...uick_reference

/unsigned gotta think outside the box i see those monks all the time and make them suffer

MagmaRed · Feb 26, 2009, 03:58 PM // 15:58

[pure strike][sun and moon slash][seeking blade][wild blow][overbearing smash][soldier's strike][whirling axe][magehunter strike][swift chop][griffon's sweep][irresistible blow]

Those are just the skills from Warrior, and not even all of them. Casters obviously ignore stances, as spells still work. Ranger, Paragon, Dervish, and Assassin all have skills that can hit a target using a Block stance, end a Block stance, or cause a condition/knockdown to a foe using a Block stance.

Still not sure what the problem with Blocking stances is. You can't kill a Monk who uses them because you aren't willing to modify your build? Considering the large number of skills available to get past blocking or make use of a foe that is blocking, what is the problem?

Painbringer · Feb 26, 2009, 04:05 PM // 16:05

I would sign but with the additional knock down time from gloves etc.. what could you do? you can only sit and get killed

Ancient M · Feb 26, 2009, 04:18 PM // 16:18

From a GvG aspect:

1. Rangers do ~300 damage relatively quickly. A common build now uses two rangers AND two warriors. If they're going to spike with four physical targets that are going to beast you without a prot, why would you not bring a block stance for your own survivability?

2. They're reactive and that makes them easy to use. Why would I want to manipulate my field position (Return) or take half damage (Dark Escape) when I could stance instantaneously and not be punished for it? Oh, and I block 75% of the incoming damage with an armor gain.

From an RA Aspect:

1. You can't count on defense on your team. You can count on people being pretty dumb and not knowing what to do, people not negating their own damage, and people not kiting efficiently to avoid said damage. I tend to use the guardians to stop physical damage amongst my team and either stance on their unload on me or guardian before they get to me, depending on the situation.

2. Once again, it's easy to use and has no punishment.

3. You can end up playing 2-3 physicals in one match, in which case you're going to need your prots in addition to some way to either manipulate your position, snare their damage, or block their damage. The first two have cast times, stances have none.

___________

This being said, I hate stances. I think they're terrible crutches to lean on and they promote reactive field watching and spike mitigation. That being said however, you'd be stupid not to run them with the amount of damage that rangers and warriors can do at the moment. Self-snaring is inefficient because of cast time, Return won't block ranged damage while it allows mobility, and there are no other block enchantments like Guardian that are easy to access without a terrible attribute spread or any reliability issues. Stances fulfill the role of blocking, easy to use, and they have a long enough duration and short enough recharge to be usable.

Wubbies · Feb 26, 2009, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

[pure strike][sun and moon slash][seeking blade][wild blow][overbearing smash][soldier's strike][whirling axe][magehunter strike][swift chop][griffon's sweep][irresistible blow]

Those are just the skills from Warrior, and not even all of them. Casters obviously ignore stances, as spells still work. Ranger, Paragon, Dervish, and Assassin all have skills that can hit a target using a Block stance, end a Block stance, or cause a condition/knockdown to a foe using a Block stance.

Still not sure what the problem with Blocking stances is. You can't kill a Monk who uses them because you aren't willing to modify your build? Considering the large number of skills available to get past blocking or make use of a foe that is blocking, what is the problem?

/agree with this statement 100%

think outside the box

JASON626 · Feb 26, 2009, 06:34 PM // 18:34

/not signed

Knock locks(being knocked down more than once in a row unable to cast each warrior KD 3 seconds with stonefist insigs), anti block skills, stance removals

Eragon Zarroc · Feb 26, 2009, 06:47 PM // 18:47

lol, having any KD remove a stance would be broken. not only does it knock ur opponent down, but it eliminates any defense that they may be able to put up themselves while knocked down? especially in places like RA or TA where there is a solitary monk that can't depend on another monk to save him when he's KD'ed.

/not signed

Arkantos · Feb 26, 2009, 06:49 PM // 18:49

So basically you want to kill defensive stances because you don't like stance monks in RA?

I'll pass.

HawkofStorms · Feb 26, 2009, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by gameshoes3003

I think it'd be cool if we got back in the "evade" and "block" system again... I think that would solve some of your problems.

Off topic: I'm glad to see somebody else misses that too. Evade and block were always kinda confusing when they where both in the game, but I always thought having both made more sense. Having simplified game mechanics isn't a great thing.

Anyway, just glad somebody else misses that system too.

Robbert Monga · Feb 27, 2009, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

[pure strike][sun and moon slash][seeking blade][wild blow][overbearing smash][soldier's strike][whirling axe][magehunter strike][swift chop][griffon's sweep][irresistible blow]

Those are just the skills from Warrior, and not even all of them. Casters obviously ignore stances, as spells still work. Ranger, Paragon, Dervish, and Assassin all have skills that can hit a target using a Block stance, end a Block stance, or cause a condition/knockdown to a foe using a Block stance.

Still not sure what the problem with Blocking stances is. You can't kill a Monk who uses them because you aren't willing to modify your build? Considering the large number of skills available to get past blocking or make use of a foe that is blocking, what is the problem?

You cannot be further from the truth.
Half of those skills terribly fails. And other half will not do the job required to kill through the stance anyway.
Problem is that as it stands tactics stance on a monk is an iwin button against any spike build. Oh you being spiked? Stance. Cover up with guardian. gg. Simple to the extend of almost passive. And passive is bad. I wont even waste my breath proving that.

Konig Des Todes · Feb 27, 2009, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Off topic: I'm glad to see somebody else misses that too. Evade and block were always kinda confusing when they where both in the game, but I always thought having both made more sense. Having simplified game mechanics isn't a great thing.

Anyway, just glad somebody else misses that system too.

I hear ya. I miss the evade simply because blocking and evading are not the same thing. Although the system made it easier for skills like Wild Strike, I'd still want it back!

On-Topic: /notsigned because KD's are, as stated, already powerful enough.

However, I am not against making caster professions gain adrenaline at a slower rate. Monks can be seen as a calm kind of person, which goes against adrenaline. So one can say that Monks should have an even harder time to get adrenaline than any other profession.

The stance monk thing is just one of many ways where the dual profession system fails and I dislike it.

draxynnic · Feb 27, 2009, 04:27 AM // 04:27

*rolls eyes* Every time I see someone pull out a rule change based on some obscure* point of definition or etymology, part of me wants to reach through the monitor, grab their neck, and squeeze.

Believe it or not, ANet's developers probably didn't go over the definition and etymology of each word they use with a fine-toothed comb before using it. "Stance" is a game mechanics keyword describing skills that share certain properties - instant activation self-buffs that cannot be stacked with other skills with the same keyword, and which can be removed by certain skills. That's all it means. Whatever the dictionary may tell you is completely irrelevant to what a stance is in the game. They could have called them gurkleflrffs instead and it would make no difference to the game mechanics.

As has already been mentioned, a stance represents a state of mind more than anything. Some 'stances', such as those that populate the Inspiration line, are purely this, while others are more physically active. However, when you think about it, there is nothing saying that characters cannot use even those more physical stances when knocked prone. A character activating Defensive Stance may be rolling along the ground to avoid blows while looking for a safe opportunity to return to his or her feet, while one using Balanced Stance may simply be looking to ensure they can get back on their feet without being knocked down again immediately after.

On a purely balance-perspective, I think others have said what's needed to be said. There are already plenty of ways to remove stances, bypass or punish blocking, or both, and knockdowns are powerful enough already. They don't need to be stronger.

*Obscurity may vary. It doesn't exactly take a genius to realise that 'stance' and 'stand' may just have a common origin.

FoxBat · Feb 27, 2009, 05:30 AM // 05:30

As was pointed out, stance hate is pretty week. All those listed skills could use some buffing before we roll out changes to stances themselves. Although disciplined could use a hit, the drawback does nothing to non-warriors so it gets used everywhere.